WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE IN FLORIDA????????????????

[Comet]

JC, I am not denying that the earth is warming. I don't think anyone is. The question people have is why and what will happen. I have studied this subject and know enough about it to come to my own conclusions and they're probably are not what you think. My only point is I am not sending any of my money to the left wing enviro whackos that profit from such movies.
Credible science and data on this subject has only been collected for a couple hundred years at best. Current science allows us to make a guess at what happened before we actually started recording it, but it's just a guess. Does anyone have any data on how fast the earth was cooling during the ice age? I have no doubt the rate of warming is in large part caused by man (and not just North American man-go to China sometime and see how fast they are industrializing and without the clean air acts and such that we have).
And fbP, the environmental history of the earth is filled with natural recoveries from man caused damage. More often, though, we intervene and help it along.
My whole point is that I personally can do nothing about it so I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
I don't know if any of you guys that went to school in the 70's saw this movie or not, but there was this educational film they showed of this indian running around the earth, floating in his canoe seeing all the garbage man was dumping. It became a well known film and also a TV commerical when the indian was crying at the destruction man has caused. Dramatic. Well, in the film they stated that all these credible scientists said by 2010 the world would be so full of garbage that there would literally be no place to put it anymore. They used population growth rates as part of their theories. Well, you know? They were wrong. Way wrong. Not only on the garbage problem, but also the population growth. They didn't count on things like a flattening of the population growth, increased recycling, better biodegradable products, etc. I remain optimistic that man will find ways to improve the products we use to slow global warming. Blind faith? Maybe, but I'm not going to sit around being depressed about something I can't control. Hell, I could use a few more days of summer here in rainy and cold Seattle!

[FORDBOYpete]

Steve,
I really respect Dr. Bill Gray, and his work with Cyclonic events is top drawer stuff. However he does not get into the past beyond written accountings and backwards plotting based on current rates/occurances. Only lately have we gained enough understanding of how heat engines that drive cyclonic events act & react, and the aspects of variable atmospheric change margins or rates at which such changes occur.

I whole heartedly agree with Dr Gray there has not been a viable dialog or discussion, and there needs to be. It needs to be a factual scientific dialog among leaders in the various concerned disciplines such as Meterology, Climatology, Geology, Geo- Physics & the other related fields(which are many). I would not put a lot of stock in the press's accounts of science & physics behind the root discussion, the press is goal driven as a generality. Plus the writers efforts most often get modified by an editor ot two in the process. There is also an Issue about the Federal Government discouraging the very explorations of topic, Dr. William Gray, PHd wants to get into. That is not an intelligent approach.

How else will all this be disproven or proven? Arguing over it sure enough
"isn't going to accomplish it". . . .

I was more a "Mechanic" in Land use & Protection Issues & am still involved in a few projects, on a volunteer basis dealing with Native and Natural Habitat Restoration and maintenance issues. Things like planning & design, maintenance, preservation, best use practices, etc on/of Public Preserves vs Public Parks vs urban interfaces.

What I'm aware of is how profound the impact of human habitation is negatively, on natural system success. I'll add my wife is still a major player in that field also. I am aware of many slight almost incinceivable changes over the last decades even, that are virtually imperceivable, without going looking specifically for them.

It's like drag racing, Nobody is coming out to dominate with a new unexplored "secret weapon", but the guy that has the most ducks, aligned the best can dominate just by a preponderance of effect they all have on his stated objective (wins). So it is with Natural systems, what we do not have a grip on is WHAT IS OVERLOAD.

I say until we have a grip on the issues let's all err on the side of caution, no? That is not unreasonable the way I understand it. We have too much at stake to get it wrong. . . .

CIAO
FBp

[FORDBOYpete]

Wait A minute, Comet,
The Crying Indian short is what kicked off recycling, before that Littering was the problem, serious cases of the highland fling.
Society has really gotten behind the notions of waste manegement practices and recycling. It didn't just go away as what you say implies, we worked to make that stuff happen Man. We all got wiser.
When I was a kid, smokestacks belching acrid fumes was depicted as being progress in most text books that touted the industrial revolution. Everybody back then really believed the Earth could take what ever we put out, and that's simply not the case as todays' science shows.
Also Core bores of the Polar Ice Caps takes us back hundreds and thousands of years in accurate recors of climatological history, so do rifts, washes and arroyos that expose stratification of Earth Soil & rock layers. All contain markers which various disciplines read and calculate, just because the lay population isn't aware of what is truthfully going on doesn't mean it(research or Global Changeing) is not really happening. . . . .

Are any of you aware of Global Dimming? Yeah laugh @ that concept, until you understand what it's about. If you think I'm blowing smoke, Pan Evaporation Rate statistics have disclosed a steady Glolab Dimming over a 100+ year period, see and y'all didn't even know they were recording Pan Evapotation Rates 100 years ago. didja? This is a great example of the credible science you feel is "missing", but there it is, and so are the Ice Cores samples ( at Penn State) and the stratification records

Google Pan Evaporation Rates then follow the links in Matts' paper on it. You may be suprised my friends. . . .

FBp

[Johnny Canuck]

Comet. I as stated before, am quite an unlikely and somewhat unwilling advocate of eviromentalism, myself.
Hell I like global warming too, with the exception of it's killing the planet's ecosytems part. I am however, upon reflection , not willing to trade a nice warm winter in Canada for 26,000 polar bears, or whatever comes after them on the extinction list.. The Iceman might not like it too much when his house and all his Slicks sink into the tundra up to the top of the doors, either. The residents of Greenland had better be building an Ark is all I can say.

As for sending these environmental Nazis a wad of cash, I suposed maybe a half a fraction of one cent of my Blockbuster rental went to them, I don't think my or your rental of a movie they had in stock anyway, is gonna make them take up a new cause, say the world wind erosion caused by Madonna's sagging triceps for instance. I suspect much more of that cash ends up in Steven Spielberg's (owner of Blockbuster) already gold-lined pockets.

So do what you wish to do. North Americans above all can make a difference, at least to CO2 emissions. Doesn't take much effort on anybody's part. But if you don't care to know, save that $.00001 cent being sent to those horrid cretins. At least for one millisecond, you were aware that the clock is ticking. Now, you can choose go back to sleep. Your choice.

[Bills 66]

About 15 years ago I was a mechanic supporting a aircraft that was supplying a 200 man camp 250 miles out on the polar ice cap. The camp was made up of huts constructed of plywood sandwiched foam insulation. A certain Univesity was running the operation.
At the same time the same school sent a DC-4 up to do air sampleing of the polar air.
They were ill equipped for the artic enviroment and after leaving their aircraft unprotected at -40 f were unable to get it started again. Two weeks later they got their stuff together and tookoff to sample the air. It was the same day the other group burned the ice camp.javascript:emoticon(':oops:')
I had a good laugh at the headlines.
Air over North Pole Polluted
Bill

[ELpolacko]

Johnny, I haven't seen the movie.

I don't plan on it either, but not because I am afraid of sending a few bucks to Gore or the producers of the film. The reason I don't want to see the movie is in my estimation is zazzed up geo-politics.

Heck, just your change in attitude about the movie itself is enough to convince me.

Instead I choose to read and keep an purely scientific thought on the subject. Judging from the proponderance of debunking websites, I would have to say there are more than a few errors or mistatements in the film that color the outcome. I really don't know what they could put in a movie that couldn't be found in the public domain.

I semi-regularly read articles from real scientists on websites like www.livescience.com or www.realclimate.org where politics are kept to a minumum and real questions can be asked and answered.

[ELpolacko]

Google Pan Evaporation Rates then follow the links in Matts' paper on it. You may be suprised my friends. . . .

FBp

I just did and found a few articles. Thanks!

Links perfectly together with the article recently posted Real Climate regarding sea ice and it's regenerative cycle: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... /#more-382


I appreciate your input and wholeheartedly agree there isn't enough discussion without political influence.

[willy3486]

My gosh guys when will you ever learn? No wonder the us is as screwed up ,everybody is listening to the politicians. Politicians are like diapers full of the same stuff and need to be changed as often. And these so called experts, you can get any Degree and be a expert for only 29.95. I am going to get a Doctorate in Bovine Excrement out of some school in Ohio. I have acess to the most accurate info known to man. 100% accurate except when its wrong. It not CNN,I.E. Crazy News Network or Faux News. ITs 3 sources. Its the weekly world news,National Enquirer and my Disco inferno mood ring. With those three items I never have to second guess.

[Comet]

Wait A minute, Comet,
The Crying Indian short is what kicked off recycling, before that Littering was the problem, serious cases of the highland fling.
Society has really gotten behind the notions of waste manegement practices and recycling. It didn't just go away as what you say implies, we worked to make that stuff happen Man. We all got wiser.FBp

FBp, you kinda made one of my points. Although the film was filled with hype and propaganda, man in fact did change some things to help reduce the garbage problem. I knew someone was going to comment on how that effected behaviorial change. However, the science behind the film was bad. Very bad. That's my issue with a lot of this stuff and Al Gore's film is no exception. I agree with Elp on the comments about how JC has taken the jazzed up geo-politics the movie contains. Not saying there isn't a problem, I just don't need to get my data from that source.

As for sending these environmental Nazis a wad of cash, I suposed maybe a half a fraction of one cent of my Blockbuster rental went to them, I don't think my or your rental of a movie they had in stock anyway, is gonna make them take up a new cause...

You know how some people are adamant about "buying American" to save US jobs, or what ever their personal bent is? Well, not funding environmentalism is a passion of mine. I used to belong to the Sierra Club and others, but once I learned how they operate and what their true agendas are and how they manipulate their members and effectively brain wash the masses I took an about face. It's my personal bent, I don't expect you to understand or care.

At least for one millisecond, you were aware that the clock is ticking. Now, you can choose go back to sleep. Your choice.

Despite what I said above, it does not mean I don't care about the environment. Quite the opposite actually. Like I said, I used to pay money to those that "supported the cause." I love to hike and camp and most of my activities are in the woods. I've made personal changes in my life to make a difference. I can list some of them if you are interested. Some of them are extreme, others mundane, but all are conscience and many help reduce the effects of global warming.

[ICEMAN6166]

The Iceman might not like it too much when his house and all his Slicks sink into the tundra up to the top of the doors, either.

well thats just not going to happen to me as there is no tundra or permafrost in this part of Alaska.

there are some problems up north starting to show up like that however.

i will tell you i did not like the Washington/Oregon style weather we had last summer which is rain almost all the time, but that is the likely change that will happen here.

[Johnny Canuck]

Well I sprouted my first growth of Chia hair today, so soon I will have a nice crop of green curly hair. Will be nice not to be recognised by anyone I know, soon, and I will try and have it styled in a nice Elvis bufont by Slickstock. So a warning to those who watch the movie.

Luckily, my watching it has already prevented others, worried that they might become nutball tree-huggers, and gain a wild desire to go mushroom picking. Stay away Steve, etc. Don't ruin those perfect bald heads with curly green Fuzz! Gotta run .. got a big craving for Tofu!

J green C

[Comet]

[mikecarson]

We got tornadoes dropping all over the place right now. Watched one just miss the airport about 2:15, after it tore up some buildings in Groesbeck. Killed one Vet in a home, but the other 5 survived. Another house caved in on a family, but I think they all survived. Forecast is for the same stuff all night.

[FORDBOYpete]

Mike My heartfelt prayers go out to you folks, I know what you're going thru, believe me Man. I am truly sorry to hear of the death, may his soul rest in peace with his maker. . . . Hang tough Mike, this too shall pass.

Today it's a clear sunny spring day in high 70s with light breezes here in the BiKiNi, tomorrow we expect the remnants of what y'all had yesterday & last night. Hopefully with Gods grace they'll be less nasty & dangerous as they pass, and that's with or in spite of Global warming, or not.

When twisters rage it's not a theoretical happenstance, it's a RIGHT NOW & IN YOUR FACE dose of high heart rate & hopeful wishes, for us anyhow.
Cheers & God Speed Buddy! I'm on your side.

FBp

[mikecarson]

2 of them went right over us last evening, but not on the ground, so we made it thru OK.

Thanks, Pete.

[jeepbut]

OK, here is the real story on global warming. There was this hotdog vender outside the Ford building, see .......Oh never mind.

[jakdad]

Folks in Colorado refuse to discuss global warm.....................................

[ICEMAN6166]

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