flywheel resurface

[flareside64]

Ok, so I'm having clutch problems again with my 1964 223. I'm on the second clutch with this truck and I think this clutch only has about 3000 miles. The clutch fingers are loose! Same thing that happened with the other pressure plate. This is causing clutch chatter when taking off from the dead stop. I have determined that it is because this is a remanufactured clutch. I have located a brand new one and will install it this weekend. However should I have the flywheel resurfaced again with only having maybe 3000 miles on it? I dont believe it is warped. I will check it out when it is removed.

[Slick Fan]

I would look at it, once you get the pressure plate off. If it's discolored in spots all around the surface, I'd go get it resurfaced.
Also, if you take it to a place that does a non-directional surfacing (with a big stone), as opposed to the brake lathe type (with a cutting bit), you'll be assured to have a cleaner surface.

BTW, does your rear main seal leak? That can cause premature chattering from oil getting in there, no matter how many new clutches you do.

[shawns fords]

I would only have it resurfaced if you have burn spots from the clutch slipping, lateral runout from the heat, you can measure that with a dial indicator without taking it off the engine. otherwise I wouldnt do anything to it, another idea will be for you to take some emery cloth and scuff it up to get any glazing youm ight have on there from the old/ new clutch slipping

you said the fingers on the pressure plate were loose? do you mean with the tranny out and no pressure from the throwout bearing on it? or when the throwout bearing is against it and adjusted and the fingers are flopping around? strange thats happening on a rebuilt or new pressure plate

[ICEMAN6166]

just took out an FE. i had previously thought the pressure plate was a little weak. found the fingers loose too, disc was worn, no metal to metal but there are some spots on the flywheel, and the pilot bushing was worn.
the flywheel would best be resurfaced.
in your case if as was said above is not glazed or blue spotted no need.
i usually just block sand them to give a fresh surface for the disc to grab.

possibly you have the adjustment rod too tight and maybe you are over levering the springs on the fingers and they are getting weak prematurely?

[fmartin_gila]

You can get a diaphram type pressure plate to use instead of the finger type. When I installed a T5 in mine, John Mummert supplied a diaphram pressure plate to use. Has worked well, smoother and with less pedal pressure required to operate.
Fred

[fmartin_gila]

Also check your mounts, as loose or worn out mounts can also cause bad chatter on takeoff, resulting in extra wear on the linkage and pressure plate.
Fred

[flareside64]

Yeah the truck has all new engine mounts and the engine is freshly rebuilt with no oil leaks at all. I had even adjusted the clutch freeplay correctly. I also removed the inspection cover and with the engine running I made sure the throwout bearing was not rubbing on the fingers. We'll see what this new clutch is like.

[ICEMAN6166]

is there only 1 size clutch for the 223? Fe has 11" and 12" and small blocks have 10" and 11" . i always try to use the bigger size as they give more surface and seem to do better.

[Brent]

[quote="Slick Fan"]I would look at it, once you get the pressure plate off. If it's discolored in spots all around the surface, I'd go get it resurfaced.
Also, if you take it to a place that does a non-directional surfacing (with a big stone), as opposed to the brake lathe type (with a cutting bit), you'll be assured to have a cleaner surface.

You should always use the grinding method
A cutter dosen't do a very good job and will be more likely to have problems.

[Slick Fan]

I would look at it, once you get the pressure plate off. If it's discolored in spots all around the surface, I'd go get it resurfaced.
Also, if you take it to a place that does a non-directional surfacing (with a big stone), as opposed to the brake lathe type (with a cutting bit), you'll be assured to have a cleaner surface.

You should always use the grinding method
A cutter dosen't do a very good job and will be more likely to have problems.

I've always had problems with the cutter method.

[shawns fords]

I dont know, I have milled down my own flywheels on the lathe before, never had any problems going that way, the key is making sure the flywheel is on straight. I always used my trusty dial indicator to make sure the thing was true before milling. also using correct cutting speed and sharp bits make a difference. most guys these days probably havent ever learned how to do anything on a lathe properly so they just do what has been showed to them. nobody wants to actually teach or train anyone how to do anything anymore, they are too busy worrying about what they will get for the things they do

[ICEMAN6166]

I dont know, I have milled down my own flywheels on the lathe before, never had any problems going that way, the key is making sure the flywheel is on straight. I always used my trusty dial indicator to make sure the thing was true before milling. also using correct cutting speed and sharp bits make a difference. most guys these days probably havent ever learned how to do anything on a lathe properly so they just do what has been showed to them. nobody wants to actually teach or train anyone how to do anything anymore, they are too busy worrying about what they will get for the things they do

good point

i used to do them all the time on the lathe when i worked in machine shops. if i was too busy with real work i would give them to a friend in the grinding shop to do. either way never had any problems.

used to take my wheel cylinders in too and hone them on the proper machine, not with a drill attachment.

not much of that type work being done or taught anymore. nice to see there are a few guys in here that have shop equipment like lathes and mills and use them.

[shawns fords]

I wish I had my own lathe, I just used the one at the shop when I did it for a living. it sure was nice to have rather than putting trust in someone else. I can say you wouldnt believe me on how many times I have seen someone cut a drum down or a rotor without even measuring the thickness afterwords to make sure it was not too thin.


that brings me to another point, maybe this flywheel has been cut down enough now its getting hot and frying the clutch with little use? you ever know 40 year old flywheel could have had alot of clutches replaced over the years.

[GLindley]

What about superficial cracks on a flywheel? Are those able to be "turned" out? Or if a flywheel has any cracks at all where the disc rubs it, they should be automatically replaced?

[shawns fords]

Gene it depends. I have milled down some rotors and drums and flywheels with small heat cracks. but if they are big and there is not much metal to mill. then you should replace it. Realistically the only way a person can tell without spending a fortune on having some goofball in a white suit test the density somehow. you just need to have it turned and see whats left. Generally a crack wont spread unless it gets hot again. I always felt if the metal is good and solid and you have a good clutch or brake material. you should last forever unless you slip the clutch all the time or ride your brakes all the time.

today the material is made much thinner and I would have to guess not as solid. most vehicles made today are good for one brake job or two then the metal surfaces are usually too thin to cut again.

On my 78 dentside he got new rotors last summer only because I wanted to start out fresh he has had many brake jobs over the years but that cant be done on more modern vehicles, everything is lighter, thinner and not as solid. ( yet we still get the same mileage as we did 60 years ago)
I have a 223 flywheel, clutch pack, and everything else back there even the T-98 4 million pounder
sorry to ramble on like this, I just felt like sharing my experiences and thoughs about the topic. I can go on and on and on and on and on and on

[Slick Fan]

I dont know, I have milled down my own flywheels on the lathe before, never had any problems going that way, the key is making sure the flywheel is on straight. I always used my trusty dial indicator to make sure the thing was true before milling. also using correct cutting speed and sharp bits make a difference. most guys these days probably havent ever learned how to do anything on a lathe properly so they just do what has been showed to them. nobody wants to actually teach or train anyone how to do anything anymore, they are too busy worrying about what they will get for the things they do

Maybe I've just had crappy luck with that method, then. I think I've had three done that way & none of them would release without a small amount of chatter. The stone finished ones have always worked as smooth as butter for me.

[shawns fords]

yup, thats because the flywheel was not cut to the proper microfinish. chatter can be atributed to a inconcistent <sp> surface (Lateral runout) as well as the micro finish needs to be correct. I learned some of this working with caddilac brakes as well. Caddilac required their rotors on this specific model to be rougher rather than smoother, the manual required the car to have Fast cuts done on the lathe rather than slow (you would think the opposite with it being caddilac) but I was wrong that time, Trial and error.
I was getting poor braking and no seat on the pads. I did it per caddilacs specifications and it al lworkedo out great.
like I said, knowing how to put it on the lathe and proper setup is an important key.